Wheatbread Johnson . Interview.

Wheatbread Johnson: Chicago Blues Survivor

By John Arrows

Perhaps Jesus Loves a Survivor, the title of Wheatbread Johnson's new cd, refers to his struggle to make a name for himself in the mostly black Chicago Blues scene. At the age of twelve Wheatbread famously won over some of the windy city's toughest customers, like Otis Rush and Sunnyland Slin, by playing with sincerity and maturity beyond his years.

The title could also allude to how he has forged an international career and following with nothing more than a five song demo and word of mouth. He has traveled across Europe and the U.S. repeatedly with his band playing everything from small clubs to hugs festivals. His first commercial CD promises to bring him further into prominence as the next big international Blues star.

No doubt though the title Jesus Loves a Survivor pays homage to an artist bent on perfection and representing himself honestly to his audience. I confirmed this during my interview with Wheatbread. He told me that during this last year he scrapped two record deals and two fully mixed CD projects purely because he felt that the finished product didn't stand up to the quality of his live performances. That is a tricky move in today's fickle music biz. Most artists wouldn't survive two such setbacks delivered so close together, but since Wheatbread has based his career on live performance and not record sales he rode it out easily.

My third interview with Wheatbread Johnson captures him at ease with these difficult decisions and eager to talk about his plans and absolutely chomping at the bit to talk about the new CD available on his new label Wholegrain Records.

John Arrows - Jesus Loves a Survivor has a broader range than most Blues records. You perform some bouncy Blues shuffles and some heavy rock tunes. But my favorite has to be your heart-wrenching slow blues 'It's Not Your Fault' . What is the history of that song?

WJ - I have been playing that song for years and never recorded a satisfactory version until now. It is song about a relationship I had as a young man that was doomed from the beginning. We were young and too immature to deal with everything in our lives. She had a tragic history. It's basically about the helpless feeling I had at not being able to help her through her problems.

JA - There seems to be another theme running through the record. 'The Bottom Line' and 'The Change' are very positive statements about love.

WJ - 'It's Not Your Fault' is very positive too, but it has a tragic ending really. 'The Bottom Line' and 'The Change' are both about the type of love I wish I had. One was about a relationship I had which didn't work out, but the song is from positive days and the other is about the girl I never met. Fortunately, now I found what I was looking for and life has never been better.

JA - Scrapping two whole CDs in one year must have been hard on you and the band.

WJ - Well, producing three CDs in a year takes more energy than just one, but it didn't curb my desire to put something out that really sounded like me and not someone else's idea of how I sound.

JA - What went wrong?

WJ - A little bit of everything. The sound wasn't quite right on both projects. I am very picky about my sound and we just missed the mark. One project was too traditional at the company's request and it just wasn't us. You could sum it all up like that; It wasn't us! (laughs). I want people who buy the CD to come away feeling that they get their money's worth and that they get a record that represents what we do on gigs. Then everyone is happy.

JA - You said that one of the projects was too traditional, but you play lots of Blues standards in your show. How was it too traditional?

WJ - I love the old Blues songs and will never stop playing my favorites live, especially the ones that were taught to me by masters back home, like '300 Pounds of Joy'. Mostly though I am interested in playing my songs and making records that are different every time and full of surprises. You can't grow otherwise and explore that beautiful thing called music.

JA - Lots of Blues artists fall into ruts by sticking to the same thing year after year.

WJ - There are reasons for that. People who call themselves Blues musicians are usually conservative and preservationist in their tastes. I love that and we need that today to keep an interest going in those styles and eras, but I am not going to make a record of that sort of thing unless the right situation presents itself, like playing with a master in that style or paying homage to someone I love with complete sincerity. You can't base your musical journey on that though unless that is really where your heart is and mine isn't. Anyway, I prefer to think of myself as just a musician.

JA - As opposed to a Blues musician?

WJ - Yes.

JA - That doesn't surprise me because the new CD has many tunes with a bluesy vibe that don't fall into the Blues format or genre too easily.

WJ - Good, that means I was being honest. I write all kinds of songs. They mostly get interpreted in a Bluesy way because that's my history and passion. When I write I let everything come out and if I am honest with myself it will have all the elements of the things that I love most, like old Blues, classic 60s and 70s rock and Soul.

JA - A lot of the songs, like 'Been Here Before', have a heavy Zeppelin edge to them. Were they an influence?

WJ - I thought they were fantastic. Jimmy Page is up there with Stevie Ray Vaughan for me. I mean he made rock and roll in the 70s, didn't he?

JA - Stevie Ray Vaughan has had an obvious impact on you and some of the music on your new CD. What other influences surface on the CD?

WJ - I couldn't name them all. I mean everybody is made up of various combinations of their heroes or their reactions against their heroes. If I had to name names though they would be Jimmie Vaughan, Lonnie Mack, Sonny Landreth, Robert Randolph, Eric Clapton in addition to Stevie and Jimmy Page.

JA - Those are all guitar players. Do any other instrumentalists or singers affect your output?

WJ - Oh, yeah!(laughs) Too many to name, but singers are the center of the Blues that I love, like Bobby Bland and O.V. Wright. I am a huge John Hiatt fan. I listen to a wide variety of things, classical, jazz and world music. I have a secret passion for Cuban son from the 20s and 30s and a newly discovered interest in Turkish and Armenian oud playing.

JA - Will we see a Blues and Arabic fusion record from you soon?

WJ - (laughs) Not likely. I am learning some of the tunes and working on improvising in those styles, but it takes a long time to have something flow out of you naturally.

JA - Staying true to your nature and vision seems to be your primary goal.

WJ - That's the most important thing you can do in life.

JA - What should we expect from you in the next year?

WJ - Expect to see us all over Europe this spring summer and fall. I want to get this CD out to a bunch of people and expand our fan base to include people outside the Blues scene. We are playing gigs in Poland, Lithuania, Germany, France, Holland, Belgium, Ireland and the U.K. to accomplish that. Also, I have most of the next CD written and just need to get a break next winter from touring to arrange the rehearsals and studio time.

JA - In closing could you explain one unique aspect of your career? You are a determinedly independent artist with his own record label and promotion company. Has staying independent been an advantage for you?

WJ - Absolutely! I control what the public hears and how my product is sold and represented in the market. Ok, it means that I sell less records than most people, but I am proud of having built this thing myself with help from my fans and the loyalty of clubs around the world. Being independent gives your audience and the venues the chance to be honest and do a good thing by supporting someone who isn't just media hype, someone who does it themselves and gets all the benefits of the fees and the merchandise sales. I get gigs because I deliver what I say I will deliver, period, and the fans and clubs know that. I do this full time. I am not a weekend warrior living out his teenage fantasy to have a band. I am committed to this thing. That's why I called the CD Jesus Loves a Survivor. There have been times when I thought I was done with music or that music was done with me and it has never happened because I have stuck to what I do best and been completely honest with my audience. That's what being an independent artist means.

Jesus Loves a Survivor, Wheatbread Johnson's latest CD, was released on February 1st, 2004 on Wholegrain Records.

The Wheatbread Johnson Interview

Joyful Noise: The tones on Wheatbread Johnson's astonishing first CD, Jesus Loves a Survivor.

By John Arrows

Now this is a rare treat. Wheatbread Johnson is not normally so patient about questions regarding guitar playing and gear, but after our third interview with Wheatbread he opened up to us about everything from strings to recording techniques. Continue on for a glimpse into the new master's sound.

John Arrows - First, I have to ask about my favorite song on the CD, the slow blues 'It's Not Your Fault'. It sounds very relaxed and the guitar tone is very jazzy. Did you approach this song any differently than the others which have a more rock edge to them?

Wheatbread Johnson - Apart from being very personal this song is also a tribute to Stevie Ray Vaughan's tender treatment of slow blues. I mean when he played a quiet blues nobody could touch him, you know?

JA - Did you use a different guitar or amp for this song?

WJ - No, the whole record was done with a Fender Bassman and my SRV strat. You can get what you want out of that setup if you know how to twiddle. For 'It's Not Your Fault' I just turned down my volume knob on the guitar by two. It was dirtier than I wanted, but that was the first complete take we did and it felt right, so I didn't change anything.

JA - Do you use the stock pickups in that SRV strat?

WJ - No, I use noiseless pickups from Chris Kinman. I use the Blues Avn set. They are meant to be like over wound pickups from a '61 strat I think. They certainly sound good. I need the noiseless pickups because I like to play loud and noise becomes an issue then. I am not that happy with the sound of the bridge pickup though. It is a good sound, but not me. Next I will try one of his broadcaster pickups. It's more like an old pedal steel pickup, or so he tells me. That might get me closer to that Robert Randolph tone I am looking for.

JA - The tone on the whole record is very fat. Do you use heavy strings to help out?

WJ - Oh, yeah! (laughs) I use .013, .017, .020, .028, .038 and a .056. The G-string is plain and hard to get, so sometimes I use a .019, but it feels pretty weak when I do that. I have an endorsement deal for my strings, but even the distributors run out of those .020s. You know strings-schmings the gauge doesn't really matter that much. There are tons of guys who get a huge sound with smaller strings, but the heavies have a sound of their own that is different than small strings and I like it. Plus, I have been playing that gauge since the age of thirteen, so I can't quit, like an addiction.

JA - You use of effects is pretty subtle. None of the sounds on the CD hit you over the head as if you rely too much on stomp boxes.

WJ - Thanks, that's what I go for in general. The only effects on the recording are a Vox wah pedal, a classic tremelo and Leslie emulator. Oh, and I use a MXR compression pedal to control how hard the signal hits the amp to control smoothness. That's all.

JA - What kind of tremelo and rotary speaker pedals were those?

WJ - I would rather not say, because the company really let me down as far as service goes. So, I don't want them to get anybody else's money. I had one of their amps and they refused to deal with the problems I was having. Anybody can guess who it was. It was a new company and they specialize in amp and effect emulation. Nuff said! (laughs) I don't want to get into any trouble!

JA - Is that why there is only one amp on the record?

WJ - Partly, The main reason was I can travel with one amp easily and a Bassman is very flexible. You can get classic Fender and early Marshall type sounds out of it. In the future I will use more classic gear on the records. I have an old Magnatone for true vibrato now and I am working on a stereo guitar to fulfill a fantasy of mine. I have always wanted to send different pickups to different amps to really separate the sounds I am getting. It all started with a dream I had of Jimmie and Stevie Ray Vaughan playing stuff in unison. That's a big sound!

JA - When will we hear that?

WJ - The guitar is being finished soon. It will definitely be used soon on gigs and the next CD.

JA - You only use the Leslie effect on one song, the title track 'Jesus Loves a Survivor'. That's also the only song you play slide on. It has a very modern groove, like a new R and B single.

WJ - Well, the groove happened because my drummer Arek Kus likes modern stuff as much as I do. But for me that song comes out of my love for Robert Randolph and the Family Band. I didn't set out to cop his style, but the song came out of an intentional homage to his way of dealing with a song. I have been working hard on getting a pedal steel type sound from a six string this last two years and I get closer every day. Also, that groove isn't as modern as you might think. It really is stolen from James Brown's Black Caesar soundtrack.

JA - The bass line on 'The Change' is very mysterious yet memorable. Is that derived from anybody else's approach?

WJ - The whole idea of the bassline being as important as the songs vocal melody or changes comes from the best 70s funk. So, I can't single anyone out here, but the Ohio Players and Robert Ward play a part here. Also, having a great bass player like Lukasz Gorczyca playing with you makes you want to write killer basslines. When I did the guitar parts on that Eric Clapton kept coming to mind. I live his recent playing. He is, for me, the greatest living Blues guitarist.

JA - The whole CD has a nice ambient sound. Did you use other microphone placement techniques besides direct miking?

WJ - The bass is direct bass, surprisingly. That's just what sounded best. I don't like to get hung up on my idea of a good sound if something sounds better. The drums were pretty much standard close miked, but there are ambient mics to pick up the room sound. Same for the guitar. The close mic sound has killed most modern records I think. But the great sounds come from great players. That's all. I mean, it ain't your gear. Good gear makes it easier for you, but you still have to play the stuff! Look at how different all the guys who play with a Les Paul and a Marshall stack sound.

JA - The solo on 'Turnaround' uses the whammy bar. Do you have your strat setup so the whammy floats above the face of the guitar?

WJ - There is no whammy on this CD. I just reach up and bend the neck with my right hand.

JA - Isn't that hard on the guitar?

WJ - I don't know, a bit. I will have my whammy setup easier soon, but for the moment it is all five springs tightened as far as they will go. The nut was cut badly recently on that guitar and doesn't like to slip back in tune. So the setup is like that to keep the guitar in tune during a whole set.

JA - Some of the songs on the CD have two guitar parts, but mostly you just play one. Did you avoid overdubs for any reason?

WJ - I want the CD to represent what we do live. I refuse to record a part that can't be played live or be integrated into my trio performance of the song. Otherwise the audience isn't getting what they paid for when they buy the CD. Also, I like the clubs and venues to know that the CD sound is what they get when they hire us. You wouldn't believe the number of clubs that are reluctant to hire us because they think that we can't pull off the songs live. They think they sound too good to be true. I guess they have been burned before, but once they give us a shot they see that that isn't an issue.

JA - 'The Bottom Line' reminds me of the Fabulous Thunderbirds. You've mentioned Jimmie Vaughan before. Would he be a big influence?

WJ - If you play Blues guitar today you can't avoid the influence of Jimmie Vaughan. He made it cool for white kids to dig into old Blues records and sound like old guys from the 50s. Whether you want to or not you will be playing things that Jimmie Vaughan single handedly brought back into style. A lot of people don't get his style, but I do. You have to have a certain history to love him. Anybody who doesn't dig him, really better consider why he claims to love Blues to begin with. It is that simple. 'The Bottom Line' grew out of that descending bass and guitar riff at the beginning of the tune. As the song progressed I knew that I wanted it to sound like Stevie and Jimmie playing together like that last Brothers Vaughan record. It doesn't sound exactly like that, because I had to be me, but that was the idea. I think the solo sounds like a pissed off Jimmie Vaughan! (laughs)

JA - You are very open about your influences and where you got your ideas from. Was there anybody else who came to mind in the making of Jesus Loves a Survivor?

WJ - Jimmy Page. The heavier things on the CD are definitely my way of learning how he approached a song and performance. 'Been Here Before' and 'Think About It' reflect that a lot. The riffs have a more Marshally type of tone. I was thinking of Physical Graffiti, my favorite Led Zeppelin record, when I chose the sounds for those two tunes. Also the solo on 'Think About It', with the wah pedal, is a bit similar to Jimmy Page's solo on 'Custard Pie'. I was pleased with the result alright. You have to be open about who shaped you. You can't pretend that you invented wheel or something!

JA - 'Think About It' is also the title of a Yardbirds tune from the Jimmy Page era. Was that nod intentional?

WJ - No, it just stuck and the lyric was formed around that phrase and the idea.

JA - Finally, what are your plans for the next CD?

WJ - I have most of the tunes written and I need to wait for next winter to have a few weeks off to rehearse and record again. We will be working even more this year, something like seven or eight months on the road. That makes it harder to get another CD together. Now that I have this experience behind me though I can see it coming together. I would like to record something that brings even more of the things I love together, like Zydeco and Caribbean music. I have been practicing lots of twelve-string this last year at home, so no doubt that will influence some of what happens. Also, I feel I was pretty tasteful and restrained on Jesus Loves a Survivor, so I want the next record to really show what I can do on the guitar as far as flooring it. With this last CD I was concerned a lot with presenting the tune in the best light. The next record will have more Jamming on it and more chances for me to open up and let it rip. I want every record to be different so people don't get bored, including me! (laughs)

Jesus Loves a Survivor, Wheatbread Johnson's latest CD, was released on February 1st 2004 on Wholegrain Records.

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Read the previous Wheatbread Johnson Interview: INTERVIEW